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	<title>Comments on: Kato Polyclay Color Recipes &#124; Alpine Succulent Palette [Sue-F]</title>
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		<title>By: Phaedrakat</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-47429</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaedrakat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-47429</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-33725&quot;&gt;carolyn&lt;/a&gt;: I&#039;d forgotten about your comment here, Carolyn -- funny! Just don&#039;t let Mr. Whipple see you guy&#039;s squeezing the bars of Kato... ;-)

I really hope you are feeling much, much better. I saw a comment from you awhile back, but not much since. Here&#039;s hoping you&#039;re feeling great, and just too busy catching up on fun things to comment lately!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a  href="#comment-33725">carolyn</a>: I&#8217;d forgotten about your comment here, Carolyn &#8212; funny! Just don&#8217;t let Mr. Whipple see you guy&#8217;s squeezing the bars of Kato&#8230; ;-)</p>
<p>I really hope you are feeling much, much better. I saw a comment from you awhile back, but not much since. Here&#8217;s hoping you&#8217;re feeling great, and just too busy catching up on fun things to comment lately!</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33725</link>
		<dc:creator>carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33725</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-33378&quot;&gt;Sue F&lt;/a&gt;: As you put it, we are stuffed!  I just got several 2 ounce blocks of Kato from Prairie Craft.  Remember they said that everything they had now was the new formulation ... well, some are K and some are J.  I guess all we can go by is Vernon&#039;s statement that, if there is &#039;give&#039; to it in the package, it is the new stuff.  Sorry to blow your theory.  Wish they had done something more visible like Premo! did.  I guess were stuck with having to squeeze the packages ... makes me think of the old ad for Charmin T-paper! ;-}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a  href="#comment-33378">Sue F</a>: As you put it, we are stuffed!  I just got several 2 ounce blocks of Kato from Prairie Craft.  Remember they said that everything they had now was the new formulation &#8230; well, some are K and some are J.  I guess all we can go by is Vernon&#8217;s statement that, if there is &#8216;give&#8217; to it in the package, it is the new stuff.  Sorry to blow your theory.  Wish they had done something more visible like Premo! did.  I guess were stuck with having to squeeze the packages &#8230; makes me think of the old ad for Charmin T-paper! ;-}</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Lietz@Ivy Leaf Charm</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33395</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Lietz@Ivy Leaf Charm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33395</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-33378&quot;&gt;Sue F&lt;/a&gt;: Thank you so much for your detailed Kato info! It is always so helpful. Isn&#039;t it funny how two products that should be basically the same thing, can have such different properties? I&#039;m starting to see Premo and Kato as &#039;two different animals&#039;! Throw in Sculpey III, Studio by Sculpey,  Fimo, Fimo Soft, Cernit and the new Pardo and it can get pretty confusing for the new clayer.

That is why it is so helpful when you share the information that you do based on your personal experiences and testing. It makes the overall experience better for all clayers. Which means the end result will be better end products out there. Important, since we are &lt;em&gt;pushing&lt;/em&gt; the polymer clay medium out of the &lt;em&gt;Kid Toy&lt;/em&gt; category and into the &lt;em&gt;Art Medium&lt;/em&gt; category.

Thanks again for all input you share here at the blog. It is appreciated by many!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a  href="#comment-33378">Sue F</a>: Thank you so much for your detailed Kato info! It is always so helpful. Isn&#8217;t it funny how two products that should be basically the same thing, can have such different properties? I&#8217;m starting to see Premo and Kato as &#8216;two different animals&#8217;! Throw in Sculpey III, Studio by Sculpey,  Fimo, Fimo Soft, Cernit and the new Pardo and it can get pretty confusing for the new clayer.</p>
<p>That is why it is so helpful when you share the information that you do based on your personal experiences and testing. It makes the overall experience better for all clayers. Which means the end result will be better end products out there. Important, since we are <em>pushing</em> the polymer clay medium out of the <em>Kid Toy</em> category and into the <em>Art Medium</em> category.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all input you share here at the blog. It is appreciated by many!</p>
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		<title>By: Sue F</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33378</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33378</guid>
		<description>I bake at 150C/300F or slightly higher, and the minimum amount of time I ever bake anything for is 20 minutes. That would be for things like flattish earring dangles or pendants (about 2-3mm thick) and my ubiquitous colour chips. Small beads usually get 24-30 minutes, large beads maybe 40-50 minutes (e.g. for solid 20mm rounds). When I make all-polyclay bangles that are baked in stages as various layers and components are added on, the first (base) stage gets 40-45 minutes, and the other stages get 30 minutes each. Baking longer is OK -- although in my testing if you bake for &lt;i&gt;too&lt;/i&gt; long the strength actually drops off slightly -- but if you have other clays involved you have to be careful about this as Kato needs the higher temperature for best strength, but that temperature can also cause other clays to discolour. For example, I use Premo Frost for packing canes since it&#039;s much clearer than Kato Translucent, but it yellows noticeably at Kato baking temperatures if baked too long, so anything with Premo Frost bits tends to be baked at the lower end of the time ranges mentioned above (unless I specifically &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; the Premo Frost to turn yellow). [NB: I &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; do the more normal thing of lowering the baking temperature to Premo range and increasing the baking time because the Kato, which is always by far the main component of my work, isn&#039;t strong enough for my liking when baked at Premo temperature, no matter how long you bake it for.]

Baking time also depends somewhat on how well your oven holds its temperature, i.e. whether it stays very close to the designated temperature (or at least to a &lt;i&gt;known&lt;/i&gt; temperature), or whether it cools down significantly before heating up again. I have two different ovens that I use for polymer clay, and both hold their temperature pretty well. One of them (a &quot;big&quot;, kitchen-type oven) has a 5C temperature variation from minimum to maximum throughout its heating cycle, i.e. if I set 150C, the oven heats to 152C, the temperature drops very slowly back to a minimum of 147C, and then it starts heating up again. The other is actually a convection microwave that I use in convection mode, and it hardly has any temperature variation at all, i.e. the oven thermometer needle doesn&#039;t move noticeably at all once the oven is up to temperature. If using an oven with a larger temperature variation (10C or more would not be uncommon from what I&#039;ve seen) I&#039;d probably bake for slightly longer to ensure that sufficient time was spent at the &quot;proper&quot; curing temperature.

It&#039;s interesting what you say about your Ks and Js. I know that what I described works for my stocks of Kato, and &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of it is of known formulation, but it was just a guess. I have had a couple of blocks of Kato White that were so soft that I had to leach them, and they were definitely old-formula because I bought them well before the new formula was even talked about. So I don&#039;t think the fact that a K block was soft &lt;i&gt;necessarily&lt;/i&gt; means it wasn&#039;t the old formula (sorry for that horrible sentence!), but I&#039;d agree that it would be very unusual! In any case, the Ks and Js are the &lt;i&gt;ONLY&lt;/i&gt; visible difference between my old-formula and new-formula Kato, and if that isn&#039;t a reliable indicator after all we&#039;re stuffed. I&#039;ll see if I can find out anything further...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bake at 150C/300F or slightly higher, and the minimum amount of time I ever bake anything for is 20 minutes. That would be for things like flattish earring dangles or pendants (about 2-3mm thick) and my ubiquitous colour chips. Small beads usually get 24-30 minutes, large beads maybe 40-50 minutes (e.g. for solid 20mm rounds). When I make all-polyclay bangles that are baked in stages as various layers and components are added on, the first (base) stage gets 40-45 minutes, and the other stages get 30 minutes each. Baking longer is OK &#8212; although in my testing if you bake for <i>too</i> long the strength actually drops off slightly &#8212; but if you have other clays involved you have to be careful about this as Kato needs the higher temperature for best strength, but that temperature can also cause other clays to discolour. For example, I use Premo Frost for packing canes since it&#8217;s much clearer than Kato Translucent, but it yellows noticeably at Kato baking temperatures if baked too long, so anything with Premo Frost bits tends to be baked at the lower end of the time ranges mentioned above (unless I specifically <i>want</i> the Premo Frost to turn yellow). [NB: I <i>don't</i> do the more normal thing of lowering the baking temperature to Premo range and increasing the baking time because the Kato, which is always by far the main component of my work, isn't strong enough for my liking when baked at Premo temperature, no matter how long you bake it for.]</p>
<p>Baking time also depends somewhat on how well your oven holds its temperature, i.e. whether it stays very close to the designated temperature (or at least to a <i>known</i> temperature), or whether it cools down significantly before heating up again. I have two different ovens that I use for polymer clay, and both hold their temperature pretty well. One of them (a &#8220;big&#8221;, kitchen-type oven) has a 5C temperature variation from minimum to maximum throughout its heating cycle, i.e. if I set 150C, the oven heats to 152C, the temperature drops very slowly back to a minimum of 147C, and then it starts heating up again. The other is actually a convection microwave that I use in convection mode, and it hardly has any temperature variation at all, i.e. the oven thermometer needle doesn&#8217;t move noticeably at all once the oven is up to temperature. If using an oven with a larger temperature variation (10C or more would not be uncommon from what I&#8217;ve seen) I&#8217;d probably bake for slightly longer to ensure that sufficient time was spent at the &#8220;proper&#8221; curing temperature.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting what you say about your Ks and Js. I know that what I described works for my stocks of Kato, and <i>all</i> of it is of known formulation, but it was just a guess. I have had a couple of blocks of Kato White that were so soft that I had to leach them, and they were definitely old-formula because I bought them well before the new formula was even talked about. So I don&#8217;t think the fact that a K block was soft <i>necessarily</i> means it wasn&#8217;t the old formula (sorry for that horrible sentence!), but I&#8217;d agree that it would be very unusual! In any case, the Ks and Js are the <i>ONLY</i> visible difference between my old-formula and new-formula Kato, and if that isn&#8217;t a reliable indicator after all we&#8217;re stuffed. I&#8217;ll see if I can find out anything further&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33363</link>
		<dc:creator>carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33363</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-33360&quot;&gt;Sue F&lt;/a&gt;: Sue, You are the resident expert on Kato ... how long are you to bake it.  With Premo! it now says 30 min for every 1/4 inch.  Kato just says to bake at 300° for 10 min.  It doesn&#039;t say anything about thickness.

Also, I just worked with some Kato and one that started with K was nice and soft.  One with J wasn&#039;t too crumbly, but not as soft as K.  Then I had one where the number was no longer discernable and it was very crumbly and required clay softener for get it to hold together.  Bottom line, I&#039;m not really sure that those K&#039;s and J&#039;s mean anything as far as formulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a  href="#comment-33360">Sue F</a>: Sue, You are the resident expert on Kato &#8230; how long are you to bake it.  With Premo! it now says 30 min for every 1/4 inch.  Kato just says to bake at 300° for 10 min.  It doesn&#8217;t say anything about thickness.</p>
<p>Also, I just worked with some Kato and one that started with K was nice and soft.  One with J wasn&#8217;t too crumbly, but not as soft as K.  Then I had one where the number was no longer discernable and it was very crumbly and required clay softener for get it to hold together.  Bottom line, I&#8217;m not really sure that those K&#8217;s and J&#8217;s mean anything as far as formulation.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue F</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33360</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33360</guid>
		<description>There are no obvious packaging differences with the new &quot;tweaked&quot; formula, but I &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; you can extrapolate from what I think is the batch number. I haven&#039;t seen enough packets of new-formula Kato to be &lt;i&gt;sure&lt;/i&gt; at this stage, but it fits with what I&#039;ve seen so far and what I&#039;ve observed from the previous formulations.

My really old stocks of the formulation that used phthalates all have batch numbers starting with &lt;b&gt;IKPCH&lt;/b&gt;.

My stocks of the phthalate-free formulation that replaced it all have batch numbers starting with &lt;b&gt;K&lt;/b&gt;.

And known-to-be new-formula Kato that I have (or have seen) has batch numbers starting with &lt;b&gt;J&lt;/b&gt;.

The batch number -- or the number I&#039;m talking about, in any case -- is printed on the front of the 2oz/56g packs in a small font at the bottom right. On 12.5oz/354g packs it&#039;s printed underneath the barcode. And on old 3oz/84g packs it&#039;s printed either underneath or to the left of the barcode.

I&#039;m still testing the new formula, and while I personally definitely prefer the old one, the new formula is much better than I expected, and I think most people will prefer it. I might write more about its characteristics later...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are no obvious packaging differences with the new &#8220;tweaked&#8221; formula, but I <i>think</i> you can extrapolate from what I think is the batch number. I haven&#8217;t seen enough packets of new-formula Kato to be <i>sure</i> at this stage, but it fits with what I&#8217;ve seen so far and what I&#8217;ve observed from the previous formulations.</p>
<p>My really old stocks of the formulation that used phthalates all have batch numbers starting with <b>IKPCH</b>.</p>
<p>My stocks of the phthalate-free formulation that replaced it all have batch numbers starting with <b>K</b>.</p>
<p>And known-to-be new-formula Kato that I have (or have seen) has batch numbers starting with <b>J</b>.</p>
<p>The batch number &#8212; or the number I&#8217;m talking about, in any case &#8212; is printed on the front of the 2oz/56g packs in a small font at the bottom right. On 12.5oz/354g packs it&#8217;s printed underneath the barcode. And on old 3oz/84g packs it&#8217;s printed either underneath or to the left of the barcode.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still testing the new formula, and while I personally definitely prefer the old one, the new formula is much better than I expected, and I think most people will prefer it. I might write more about its characteristics later&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33357</link>
		<dc:creator>carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33357</guid>
		<description>And this info just now from Vernon of Prairie Crafts (Kato)  &quot;Any thing from us will be the new, however; if you have “give” with the clay in a package it is the new.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this info just now from Vernon of Prairie Crafts (Kato)  &#8220;Any thing from us will be the new, however; if you have “give” with the clay in a package it is the new.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-33355</link>
		<dc:creator>carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-33355</guid>
		<description>We still don&#039;t know how we will tell old Kato from new, but this statement is on their website:  &quot;All Kato PolyClay in stock now is a new and improved formulation. This new formulation address the natural advancement of polymer clay. Batches were time tested for over 6 months to determine the right amount of plasticizer to halt the advancement and extend shelf life for ease of conditioning. All characteristics of Kato PolyClay have been retained. We believe you will find this new formulation a joy to use.&quot;

What we get from other places, I guess, could be either old or new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We still don&#8217;t know how we will tell old Kato from new, but this statement is on their website:  &#8220;All Kato PolyClay in stock now is a new and improved formulation. This new formulation address the natural advancement of polymer clay. Batches were time tested for over 6 months to determine the right amount of plasticizer to halt the advancement and extend shelf life for ease of conditioning. All characteristics of Kato PolyClay have been retained. We believe you will find this new formulation a joy to use.&#8221;</p>
<p>What we get from other places, I guess, could be either old or new.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue F</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-31973</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-31973</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-31965&quot;&gt;Bonnie&lt;/a&gt;: OK, &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt; I&#039;ve had a reply from PrairieCraft... Just in the nick of time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a  href="#comment-31965">Bonnie</a>: OK, <i>now</i> I&#8217;ve had a reply from PrairieCraft&#8230; Just in the nick of time!</p>
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		<title>By: Sue F</title>
		<link>http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/kato-polyclay-color-recipes-alpine-succulent-palette/8912/#comment-31968</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadsandbeading.com/blog/?p=8912#comment-31968</guid>
		<description>Thanks @&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-31965&quot;&gt;Bonnie&lt;/a&gt;, I&#039;ll check them out too! I think it&#039;s just as well that I now have a whole room dedicated to my arts and crafts, because I can see myself wanting to experiment with many, many more things!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks @<a  href="#comment-31965">Bonnie</a>, I&#8217;ll check them out too! I think it&#8217;s just as well that I now have a whole room dedicated to my arts and crafts, because I can see myself wanting to experiment with many, many more things!</p>
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